Discussing Judging with Charlie Olvis

By Amy Fernandez

Discussing Judging & Old English sheepdogs with AKC’s Newest All Breed Judge.

Charlie Olvis has enjoyed a long successful career in dogs. For over 35 years, Sunup campaigned top quality Old English Sheepdogs, producing several BIS and Specialty winners. He is currently approved to judge All AKC breeds, and his assignments have included nationals and specialties internationally and throughout the U.S.

Charlie came up through the ranks, showing his first Old English Sheepdog in obedience in 1971. “When I started going to shows I looked around and decided I wanted to do conformation.” He jumped into the game in 1972. Then living in Ohio, he acquired his first dog from a breeder in Michigan. Like most of us, he did not start off with the best. To put the situation into clear perspective he describes the level of Breed competition during those years. “Back then 75-100 Sheepdogs were being shown every weekend. It took 16 dogs and 24 bitches to make a three point major. ” Between 1970 and 1975 AKC registrations for Old English Sheepdogs almost doubled, sending the breed’s rank from 31st to 21st place.

Those numbers would seem discouraging for a novice exhibitor, but, “They were trying to build majors so everyone was real friendly to me back then. I showed that dog about 15 times and couldn’t do anything with it.” Finally, he hired the legendary Tommy Glassford, “and he couldn’t put a point on it either. I got another dog and put 12 points and one major on that one. But it turned out to have some health issues. ” By then, many novices would have given up on showing OES and found a less challenging hobby like cliff diving or high stakes poker. Instead, Charlie contacted Maryland breeder Joyce Wetzler. Since the late 1960s her Whisperwood Kennel has produced over 100 champions including many BIS and specialty winners. Along with Joyce, Charlie cites Bob Stein and Bob and Ellen Fetter as his strongest influences.

From Whisperwood, he finally obtained a competitive OES, but it wasn’t a free ride. “When I brought out the first bitch she was two to four inches smaller than anything else in the ring. But she was so well put together it didn’t matter.” She started beating the local competition, became his first champion, and racked up some nice wins. “They didn’t like me so much when I finally started winning.” Looking back, he considers the whole thing an invaluable learning experience.

“After that I got a couple more dogs from Joyce,” most notably his multiple BIS winner and top producer, Ch. Whisperwood Won Way To Go. “ She was a great dog, She produced two BIS dogs, several specialty winners and became the foundation of our breeding program. For the next 35 years I bred and showed those dogs with my partner Liz Muthard.” By the mid-80s Sunup was going strong. Their limited breeding program produced several BIS and specialty winners including Ch. Sunup Baad for You, Ch. Sunup Pirate Treasure, Ch. Sunup Sez Won More Win, Ch. Sunup Aphrodite Dare to Win, Ch. Sunup Heaven Can Wait, the top producer Ch. Sunup Personal Ensign, and Ch. Sunup Heartug Remembering Ewe, a multiple BIS winner and top ranked Herding dog in Mexico after completing his AKC title. “The dogs we bred back in those days fit the standard. They could compete today.”

Liz Muthard adds “Every breed was designed for a function and breeders must preserve functional traits. Regardless of what anyone says, it is possible to breed typey dogs that can perform the function they were created for. The herding drive is instinctive and you can see that when you watch any breed at play. Its distinctive play style is based on the breed’s original function.”

Charlie emphasizes this point noting that, “it doesn’t take much to bring it out. We had dogs in the backyard that never herded a day their lives and one of them would herd the others into a corner. We’ve bred Poodles, Labs, and Otterhounds. If a dog can’t do the job it was designed for what good is it? If your livelihood depends on hunting, you want the best dog you can possibly get to do it. What good is a gun-shy Sporting dog? I’ve heard the old arguments but the typey dogs should be the functional dogs.”

And precisely what does he consider defining traits of OES type? “A Sheepdog must have unmistakable head type, correct coat, topline, and balance. All of these traits enhance function. It is one of the shortest backed, most compact breeds.” As a veteran breeder, he understands the inherent challenges of combining that package of compactness, balance and efficient gait. “A sheepdog should have plenty of reach and drive and move around the ring with ease. A typey, beautiful dog that couldn’t move didn’t get shown or used in our breeding program. I don’t want to sound too negative, but I’m passionate about my breed.”

Charlie concedes that judges can find it challenging to evaluate OES gait. “It’s a herding breed, it gallops and paces. When I’m judging I’ll ask the exhibitor to try and get the dog out of a pace so I can see it move. But the standard permits pacing, and I have heard judges say that they fault dogs for doing that.”

That’s not the biggest problem he sees in the ring today. One that especially concerns him is the preponderance of long, low-to-the-ground dogs. “They run downhill. A correct Sheepdog topline doesn’t come from overly short front legs but I see it all the time. The topline description was changed in the last standard revision and I’m not sure that was a good thing.” Like many well-intentioned clarifications, he suspects that this one may have compounded the confusion. But that’s not the only reason. “You can put a correct topline on a level-backed dog with teasing and trimming” He’s not alone thinking that the grooming has crossed the line. “Many dogs are way over-trimmed. They don’t even look like Sheepdogs, they look like Bichons.” He adds that excessive grooming has also become the go-to fix for head faults like incorrect skull shape and lack of muzzle. Inevitably, excessive grooming opens the door to incorrect coat texture. “The breed should have a hard, harsh, weather-resistant coat. They were bred to be out in the field herding in all weather. These soft-coated dogs wouldn’t last three days in cold, wind, or ice. It compromises function.”

As we know, profusely coated breeds pose a multitude of challenges. “Both judges and exhibitors can get lost evaluating a dog with a lot of coat. The Old English Sheepdog is supposed to be a big, powerful, thickset dog with plenty of bone, body, and substance.” Calling it “a lot of dog in a small package” he notes that size does not guarantee sound structure or sturdiness. “You can trim and tease, and from ringside the dog looks like a million bucks. Then you put your hands on it and it turns out to be what I call a ‘hotdog body’ no bone or substance. Believe me; I’ve judged a million of them! Judges shouldn’t get hung up on size. The standard allows a size differential. Dogs can be 22 inches and up and bitches 21 inches and up. Size is not the primary consideration; overall balance and type are far more important. If the best dog is slightly larger or smaller put it up.”

He says, “I love my breed and I’m not trying to run it down. There are plenty of good dogs out there.” After 35 years of breeding, exhibiting and judging, he knows OES from the ground up. “I really admire the breeders and exhibitors out there today. This is a very tough breed and it requires real dedication. They can be very headstrong. It’s not a breed that you can brush out the day before the show. Grooming a Sheepdog involves hours of prep and work. Getting water to penetrate the coat when you bathe one takes forever. I can understand why people become discouraged after going through all of that for just two minutes in the ring.” He is fully aware of his role in the breed’s future. “Every dog has faults; it’s the judge’s job to look for the virtues.”

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Posted by Alex on Dec 31 2013. Filed under Current Articles. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. Both comments and pings are currently closed.